I am back with an Idea

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zprogrammer
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I am back with an Idea

Post by zprogrammer » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Hi all,
Could we have the text files of CBTTAPE available here? 
Advantage :
- Providing Lazy solutions will give make more popular
Just a thought


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Anuj Dhawan
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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by Anuj Dhawan » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:56 pm

Could we have the text files of CBTTAPE available here?
That can be done. However, I think you might want to explain it more, yes?


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Anuj

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enrico-sorichetti
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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:22 am

Providing Lazy solutions will give make more popular
more popular with lazy people,
don' t we have enough of them hanging around in the MVS/zOS related forums ???

anyway from a legal point of view, quite a few files are release ONLY for distribution on the CBTTAPE


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by Anuj Dhawan » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:40 am

On the other hand, if provide with 'copies of the files', I doubt that they can be kept up-to-date all the time. While starting the CBT Tape section on this board, I contacted Sam Knutson (then care taker of CBT Tape, I think he still is) for his approval and here is the part of the conversation:
Anuj Dhawan wrote:I'm a Software Developer and work with IBM Mainframes. I've stared with a Forum named as: "Mainframes, MVS, zOS and related Languages Support Forums." at URL http://www.zMainframes.com. I'd like to share some of the CBT Tape Files there "as is". Before I do so, I need your permission to go forward.

In doing so, the Files will be shared as they are defined at CBT Tape site and they will be the "property" of the contributor. My only intent to let my users know about these files and use them when needed.
Sam Knutson wrote:You are welcome to post about CBTTAPE.ORG and point to the site but I would prefer you not host copies of the files.
These kind of copies always wind up getting out of date.  It is much better to just refer people to the CBTTAPE.ORG site for the downloads where they are always the latest.
Apart from the poor English on my part I think He is fine with making copies of the Tape files but who will keep them latest? Said that, more (activity on the board) the merrier (I am)! :)


Thanks,
Anuj

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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by zprogrammer » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:45 pm

Because the point is many places xmit manager / unxmit are not allowed to be installed in machines and in such cases I was wondering if there could be a unxmitted version of files available online somewhere .. Not many still know about CBTTAPE .. So we are not only making people to take a look at some old codes but also making CBTTAPE a bit famous :)


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:27 pm

a few stats after a quick and dirty test
- quick because I have all scripted  8-)

Code: Select all

                                   Files       Total size  ( approx )
ftp' ed from the cbt directory           948        472.8 MB
unzipped                                 940         1.61 GB
unxmitted ( first level only )        30.758         1.43 GB
second level xmi                         542            TODO
a few bewares ...
the $ in the file names will usually cause troubles in a linux environment , has to be fixed
many files have hex chars ( mostly ISPF related ), so the txt files are useless - NO FIX
the naming standards are pretty odd, has to be fixed

I handled only the FIRST LEVEL *.xmi files,

more gotchas
there are quite a few EBCDIC files ( *.DATA) which have to be converted , has to be fixed
a few files were loaded for unknown reason with a different codepage , has to be fixed
the licence/copyright status of some files is murky

the CBT section should be done once at each full tape release
- when the updates are merged

the updates should be done monthly ( reasonable interval IMO ) to pick up the updates


cheers
enrico
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so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)

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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by Anuj Dhawan » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:23 pm

Enrico - should I smell that like a plan?

I did not think in that direction and I almost thought that this idea from Pandora might need a considerable effort to see the day of the light but your inputs comes with positive motivation even though there are multiple gotchas!

PandoraBox - Are you listening, what's your take on that?
Last edited by Anuj Dhawan on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spell check.


Thanks,
Anuj

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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:14 pm

should I smell that like a plan?
nope ... just the beginning of a LOOOONG to do list
I did not think in that direction and I almost thought that this idea from Pandora might need a considerable effort to see the day of the light but your inputs comes with positive motivation even though there are multiple gotchas!
no positive motivation ...

it pisses(*) me off that people throw proposals without having the slightest idea on how to implement it and about the effort needed.
whatever You might think...  the effort is going to  be considerable

(*) part of my cultural background... when making a proposal I consider a duty to sketch a path for the solution


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by zprogrammer » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:30 pm

Oops sorry to respond a bit late ,

Thanks for the great stats Enrico it gives an idea on the glimpse of data we are talking about

As of now it would be good if we could have the .xmi or .xmit files unxmitted I have seen the data files too

So this is the plan I am talking about

1.txt format of XMIT files to be available in a link here and given links to the actual CBT links (if anyone needs the xmit files)
2.Run a scrapper to find updates every month ( That should be possible )
3. We need to write scripts to go to each and every file in CBT -> Unxmit and get the text files uploaded in shared space
4.Admin can use them and upload here ....

Does it sound feasible?


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:29 pm

Probably the currently available tools to unxmit things on the PC
will fail because of added text unit keys ( 8028 in this case )

and, IIRC there are a few ISPF packed members, that the same will not handle.


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:43 am

2.Run a scrapper to find updates every month ( That should be possible )
possible, but complicated, the CBT site has a directory with the updates,
just reload from scratch every time the updates


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)

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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by Anuj Dhawan » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:35 pm

enrico-sorichetti wrote:is going to  be considerable
Yes, it's going to be a hefty effort.

Pandora-Box -- If you can own this effort, I'll chip in. This is a 'project' in itself. 


Thanks,
Anuj

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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:51 pm

Frankly I think that effort is not worth the possible outcome.
satisfying people curiosity is not high in my list of objectives.

Very seldom I have seen CBT stuff used live. and NEVER by normal users.
99.99 % of the solutions on the CBT tapes are related to system programming
and their implementation is supposedly done by the system group.

remember also that the solutions showed are site specific, for specific needs
to export them to a different site will require a high skill level to implement the proper changes
- much higher than the one showed by the people hanging around here.

I do not see any reason for people really interested not do the lurking on their personal equipment
where they can install all the tools needed.
naturally that' s my personal opinion.  8-)


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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Re: I am back with an Idea

Post by zprogrammer » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:45 pm

Hi Enrico,

I agree with you.. But atleast having a look into programs might give some insights what different things could be done...

That itself would be a thought triggering mechanism


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