Copy Tape to DASD problem

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albert94
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Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:19 am

Hello !!!
I'm newcomer in mainframe world !! I have a problem with IPL z/OS from Tape !!
If you IPL z/OS from Tape device for the first time , how to copy whole Tape content to DASD sysres (for future IPL) ?

Thank you !!



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Robert Sample
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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by Robert Sample » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:48 am

ICKDSF is the Device Support Facilities product from IBM -- if you are asking this type of question and have not CLOSELY studied the entire ICKDSF manual for your release of z/OS, I recommend you start there. Doing an IPL from tape is rarely done -- generally sites IPL from disk drives. If you have a need to IPL from tape, work closely with IBM to put together the appropriate process to do the IPL and then create the disk volume(s) for future IPL activity -- it is not merely copying the tape to disk and then you can IPL from that disk.




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:51 pm

but ... generally speaking
NO IBM dasd based system ever IPLed from tape

the only <things> that can be IPLed from tape
are the
initialise ( IBCDASDI, ICKDSF)
restore (IBCDMPRS/ADRDSSU)
family utilities

and the problem determination utility
stand alone core dump

so the normal process flow would be

initialize the disks ( tape ipl )
restore them (tape ipl )

IPL the running system from dasd

PS.
zLinux is a different can of worms
it can IPL from a SEQUENTIAL device
( cars reader, tape, cdrom)


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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albert94
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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:35 pm

Ok ! so Imagine that you want to install new System without any z/OS or any other OSes !!!
How to import z/OS to storage system for the first time ??? and IPL z/OS using Load Parameter ?




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:06 pm

Ok ! so Imagine that you want to install new System without any z/OS or any other OSes !!!
every operating system distribution has its quirks

read the documentation that comes along with the MRM(*)
all the steps are clearly described there

(*) MRM ==> Machine Readable Material ...
tapes, cdroms, diskettes, punched cards, ..., ...,


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)

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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by Robert Sample » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:45 pm

Ok ! so Imagine that you want to install new System without any z/OS or any other OSes !!!
This doesn't happen -- a z machine comes with z/OS, z/VM, or other operating system; why spend the money for a z machine and not have the OS available? If nothing else, IBM will prepare a single-volume operating system disk so the company can IPL from it and then develop the full-blown system using TSO/ISPF and the utilities. And once the system is loading from disk, there never is a need (or desire) to load from tape. Looking at the ICKDSF manual, the V2R1 version references stand-alone IPL from tape, but most of the references are to XA or ESA mode, which are not z/Architecture (they predate it by many years). I suspect you probably could get a z/OS IPL from tape, but it would be a very limited system and mostly good for laying down a disk-based system. You certainly could not run application workload on such a machine.




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:55 am

All the methods of installing z/OS is base on prior OS !
What to do If you want to install new z/OS in new machine ?? i cant understand why there is no way for this problem ?
If you Download z/OS from IBM, How to transfer System's data sets to DASD for IPL ?
every concept and action in IBM is very complicated ! You should read 1000000 pages to learn how to tranfer X to Y or something like that. sorry .......




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:07 pm

All the methods of installing z/OS is base on prior OS !
NO... it is You that do not try to understand what we are telling You :evil:
What to do If you want to install new z/OS in new machine ?? i cant understand why there is no way for this problem ?
You were already given an answer ...
IBM will provide You with the MRM(*) and the instructions on how to load it ..

the instruction and the MRM will be different depending on the deliver method chosen and contract You signed with IBM

could be a barebones system, an You will have to do the customisation
or it could be a system customised to Your hardware and software configuration

still the FIRST step will be standalone restore of the <starter> system

every concept and action in IBM is very complicated ! You should read 1000000 pages to learn how to tranfer X to Y or something like that.
pretty inconsiderate comment

anyway no more than a full linux installation
at least with IBM The information needed can be found in the IBM manuals,
for linux You have to wander thru gazillions of manuals ( that You have to research Yourself )

(*) TAPES or a CDROM

PS
I'm newcomer in mainframe world !! I have a problem with IPL z/OS from Tape !!
If You are a newcomer You should not have any problems,,
nobody would assign You the task of installing a z/OS from scratch


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:41 pm

I'm newcomer in mainframe world !!
start from here
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/s ... .html?Open
and proceed to
http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/s ... .html?Open
and keep reading for 12 more volumes


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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albert94
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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:45 pm

Thanks again !!!
I'll try to solve my problems !!!

Best regards
Albert94




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:07 pm

I'll try to solve my problems !!!
unfortunately nobody has been able to understand what problems You are facing :?


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)


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albert94
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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:45 pm

I must improve my knowledge



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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by Robert Sample » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:29 pm

I think the base problem is that you don't know enough about mainframes to ask an intelligent, sensible question. Remember that the IBM mainframe has now been around for more than 50 years, and few sites installing a system z machine these days would need to start from scratch. Almost always, the existing system is used to generate the new machine's operating system (on disk) and hence there is essentially NO need to IPL a system z machine from tape. Your question may have made sense to you but in the real world it is almost completely nonsensical and definitely irrelevant to system z mainframes. Even if a site decides to start with a system z machine, and has never had a system z before, the system will be sold with disk storage and IBM will set up the operating system on that disk storage.




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albert94
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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by albert94 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:57 pm

Customized Offerings Driver

I think this is my solution !

http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledge ... %23whatcod

What is your opinion ?




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Re: Copy Tape to DASD problem

Post by enrico-sorichetti » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:26 pm

My opinion is that You are wasting everybody's time !
Topic locked to prevent further waste of time and resources
z/OS V1R12.0 Planning for Installation
has been out of support since 30 Sept 2014
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/support/ ... dex_z.html

what is that You are really looking for ?

all the IBM zOS offering have somewhere the sentences
Notes:
This product ships its executable code via Customized Offerings (ServerPac and CBPDO). The media type is chosen during the customized offering ordering procedure. Refer to the Customized Offerings section for the media types offered.
for the umpteen time

the MRM shipped will have all the instructions for the installation


cheers
enrico
When I tell somebody to RTFM or STFW I usually have the page open in another tab/window of my browser,
so that I am sure that the information requested can be reached with a very small effort 8-)

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